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Anderson Cooper 360

News/Business. (2013) (CC)

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Alexander 13, Us 10, Montana 5, Travis Alexander 5, U.s. 4, Jodi Arias 4, Iran 4, John Miller 3, Schwab 3, Jodi 3, New York 3, Garth 3, Mr. Alexander 3, America 3, Alaska 2, Travis 2, T. Rowe 2, Bjorn 2, John Allen 2, Guantanamo 2,
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  CNN    Anderson Cooper 360    News/Business.  (2013)  (CC)  

    March 8, 2013
    8:00 - 9:00pm PST  

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we've now heard from the defense, the prosecution, and even the jurors. in the days to come, the trial turns to experts. in an effort to explain how this could have happened. what caused travis alexander his life, and why jodi arias suddenly became a killer. i'm randi kaye. thanks for watching. much more on the trial right now on 360. anderson? >> randi, thanks. it's 11:00 on the east coast. osama bin laden pfrs spokesman and son-in-law in court blocks away from ground zero. how he was caught, how he'll by tried and what it does to al qaeda. join us tonight. >> also, tonight, the week's most unforgettable moments from jodi arias on the stand, to the rare jury questions to what happens next.
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>> we begin with breaking news. thehe the head of one of america's biggest airlines speaking out on thedition to allow knives on aircrafts. >> he wrote, quote, we must object to the decision to allow small knives back in the aircrafts. joining us is the international president of the association of flight attendants. what do you make of this? you must be pleased that the delta ceo is weighing in on the side of the flight attendants. why are you opposed to this? >> it's completely unnecessary to introduce a weapon to the aircraft. introduce knives back into the cabin. makes no sense. >> is it out of concern for the safety of flight attendsants and other personnel onboard the aircraft that is your primary concern here? >> well, as flight attendants,
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we're in charge of the entire cabin. so our job is to be the first responders in any event and also the last line of defense in our nation's aviation security, so the attempt to reintredeuce kniv kniv knives on board absolutely could impact any passenger on board, and we're there for safety and to protect each and every passenger on each and every flied. >> the counter argument to this is these aren't weapons that are going to bring down an aircraft and this will allow tsa screeners more time to look for the kind of hidden weapons, explosive devices, that actually would bring down an aircraft. to that, you say what? >> well, it doesn't make sense, again. so we appreciate all that our transportation security officers do each and every day to make sure that america's aviation system is the safest in the world, but to say that that's going to somehow free up resources doesn't make any sense. today, there's a complete prohibition on knives coming through security. and to ease that restriction is
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just going to create a bottleneck. it doesn't make any sense. how big is this knife, is it long enough, wide enough, does it lock, not lock? that's going to create confusion at the checkpoint where as right now there's a complete prohibition and we want to see it stay that way. in reference to the airline's support, this issue was raised a few years ago and it was flatly shot down, and we had airline support. myself, i'm a flight attendant with alaska airlines, and that's one of the airlines that also was opposed to this a few years ago. we're expecting more to join in this chorus with us today as alaska airline's ceo at the time remarked that in 2000, alaska airlines passenger had a 2 1/2 inch knife and attacked the crew members and he says a weapon such as a pointed tip could cause great harm on crew members and passengers in the cabin. so the story was the same seven years ago as it is today. we're all better off and we're
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all safer without weapons onboard the aircraft. >> i appreciate your perspective and talking to us. thank you very much. i want to bring in john miller from cbs. john also worked for the los angeles police department and the fbi and intelligence. what do you make of that argument, the flight attendants say look, this is ridiculous. this makes so sense whatsoever? >> first of all, you have to sympathize with the flight attendant point of view here. the flight attendants were the first victims of 9/11. they were the ones killed with box cutters and knives that at that point were legal to bring on planes, but they weren't the 2 1/2 inch blades of the swiss army knife or the knives that people carry on their key chain. tsa is trying to do two things. they're trying to align themselves with the rest of the airline industry across the globe, which has the rule knives are okay, nothing longer than a 2 1/2 inch blade. again, the type of knife you might find on a key chain. that's not the kind of device that is going to bring down an aircraft. and we have learned when
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somebody gets disorderly on a plane, in the post-9/11 world, the crew and passengers we s wo tie the person up, tie the person down. that's the one thing, to harmonize it with the rules that all of the other countries have. the second part is the important part, which is while they're looking at the x-rays trying to find the two-inch knife, they moore need more time to concentrate on how the terrorists are going to bring down a plane, which is explosives hidden in a printer cartridge or in china where they were hidden inside the tubes of the man on crutches or the underwear bomb or the second generation underwear bomb that we see by their own testing got by a check point because their grab bag mentality of can i find the lighter or the knife, they should focus on what is the passenger's behavior, what does intelligence tell us? >> you think this might free up
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time at the tsa screening check points because the flight att d attendant was saying it creates confusion. they're going to be thinking, is that under two inches? >> i still think when they see a big knife, that's going to be a no-go. that's what the rule says, but i think they'll spend less time looking for these tiny objects, the things that are not going to bring down the plane, and more on terrorist training and tactics, and the things that could be hidden that you could find at second or third glance if you spent the time rather than looking for the little knife or the other items. >> they have set the date for this back in april. >> april 25th, so what they're looking for is what ms. shook is telling us, they want feedback from the industry, to see if this is a deal breaker, but they're trying to align themselves with the way the rest of the world does it. >> the ceo of delta says this is a bad deal. john miller, this is playing out as a top al qaeda spokesman who
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happened to be osama bin laden's son-in-law pleaded not guilty today in a federal courtroom here in new york. he was accused of plotting to ce killing americans. he was arrested last week in jordan. osama bin laden counted his son-in-law as part of his inner circle. u.s. officials say he was tapped as al qaeda's spokesman after the september 11th attacks. in other words, he was a big catch back then, or so it would seem. the decision to handle his case in the civilian court has reignited a bitter debate. two journalists who have ever interviewed bin laden are here. peter, what do you make of this? is this really a big catch? >> this is a guy who made a poor marital choice, which was marrying one of bin laden's daughters. as a result of which he was part of a bin laden inner circle, but he's a propagandist. he's -- you know, even the indictment itself doesn't mention any actual terror plot he was involved in.
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john will also remember he kind of -- there was a period where he was somewhat public in the late '01, early 2002 time period and then he disappeared from sight because he wasn't that important. he was living on some form of house arrest in iran and has little impact on al qaeda since or even when he was being very prominent. it was really mostly just making statements and, you know, statements were very poisonous statements, but that doesn't mean he was involved in 9/11. in fact, the evidence we have suggests he wasn't involved -- didn't even know 9/11 was going to happen. a videotape that was recovered in an al qaeda safe house showed bin laden saying we didn't even clue this guy in. >> read there's some thought that perhaps he has information about the relationship between iran and the people who were part of al qaeda who were given -- allowed to go into iran and have been living there for years. >> i think that anybody who was part of the al qaeda senior
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leadership crew that was under house arrest in iran over time would be able to give u.s. intelligence a window into how that worked. they already know a good deal about it, which is iran had people under fairly tight house arrest and then sometimes they would loosen that valve and allow them to meet, communicate overseas, just depending on the atmosphere at the time. >> do you think this is a big catch, and what do you make of him being tried here in the united states? >> first of all, i think it's a symbolic catch. when you have someone who says i am speaking for al qaeda and shakes his finger at the united states on september 12, 2001, as smoke is still coming up from the ground and saying we're preparing an army of thousands to come against you. be ready for a storm, especially the storm of the airplanes. don't fly in planes and don't live in high-rise buildings because you won't be safe, that is somebody who is acting as a part of al qaeda. that's material support of terrorism. that's conspiracy to kill
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americans sxrk that's what it says in the indictment. whether he should be in a federal courtroom downtown or in a military tribunal, i think that's a political argument between democrats and republicans. i'm not a political guy, but if you look at the numbers, guantanamo has been up for a decade. they have convicted four people in serious cases. at the same time, the federal courts have tried 500 terrorism cases here in the united states. 67 of those involving people who were captured overseas. they're indicted, a year later they're on trial. after that, 87% of them are serving long or life sentences. so you have to ask yourself, which system is working? and which system is struggling? >> and peter, we did hear from republican senators mitch mcconnell, lindsay graham among them, criticizing the obama administration for bringing this guy to civilian court and not to gitmo center. graham said the administration, quote, snuck him in under the nose of congress. do you think that's a valid criticism? >> well, i'm not sure, but i just wanted to sort of amplify
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and second what john was saying. i mean, there's nowhere worse in the world to be an alleged terrorist than new york state federal court. the conviction rate in new york state for these types of crimes are 100 persh. the conviction rate in guantanamo is less than 1%, in fact, some of the convictions in guantanamo have actually been overturned and the sentences handed down in there some cases have been minuscule because they're time serves and months served in whatever country the accused terrorist comes from. both on the question that the fact the senators are quite short that the convictions have been overturned, and that very few cases have been tried, guantanamo is not a very realistic place to put anybody. >> peter bergen, appreciate you being on, john miller as well. >> let me know what you think about this. do you think he should be tried in new york? >> next, they set a date to choose the next pope. we'll take you behind the
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scenes. >> later, where does another riveting week of testimony in the jodi arias trial leave the defendant? we'll play you the key moment that could keep her aleive or pt her on death row. >> do you have any memories of slashing mr. alexander's throat? >> no. >> when you were asked on cross-examination if you did that, do you recall telling us that you did? >> yes. transit fares! as in the 37 billion transit fares we help collect each year. no? oh, right. you're thinking of the 1.6 million daily customer care interactions xerox handles. or the 900 million health insurance claims we process. so, it's no surprise to you that companies depend on today's xerox for services that simplify how work gets done. which is...pretty much what we've always stood for. with xerox, you're ready for real business. and his new boss told him two things --
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s.n.a.p., survivors network for those abused by priests, also john allen, senior vatican respondent. walk us through the process. the sistine chapel has been transformed for this conclave. what has to happen before tuesday? >> two things, logistical things that have to be taken care of for example, the chimney atop the sistine chapel has to be affixed, the famous iconic chimney that gives us either the black smoke that means no pope has been elected or the white smoke that means we have a pope. there's still a bank of tables that have to be arranged inside the sistine chapel where cardinals have carefully scripted assigned seating and so on. all of that has to be done. in the meantime, the more important thing is there's political heavy lifting that has to go on in the next four days because at this stage, the consensus is there's no clear front runner for the papacy. the last thing these 115 cardinals who are going to cast
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votes want is to go into the sistine chapel and become deadlocks and have to say there for more than three or four days because then they're projecting images of paralysis and deadlock and infighting. they have about four days to get their act together and to try to have a game plan when they go into the sistine chapel on tuesday. >> and john, each of those 115 cardinal electors get a ballot tuesday afternoon for the first round of voting. they actually write the name of their choice in a secret way. how do they do that? >> well, actually, what the ballot will do is the ballot is a piece of paper about this big. all the names of all of the cardinal electors are written on it in latin. you mark the guy you're voting for, then each cardinal is also assigned a mark unique to him that he places on that ballot, and the logic there, anderson, is that the rules actually specify that you have to have two thirds of the vote plus one, and you cannot vote for yourself. >> and john, as you see it from
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your reporting, is there a front runner at this point or a clear front runner? >> no, that's exactly the problem. in 2005, when benedict xvi was elected, cardinal ratzinger was the obvious front runner. all the conversations leading up to the conclave were organized around him. what we have now instead is a field of six, seven, eight, as many as ten plausible candidates for whom you can make an argument, but no one of them towered over the field, and the risk therefore is in the early ballots of the conclave, the votes could be spread, no one could be getting close to the two thirds majority, 77 out of the 115 votes, which means they would have to go back to the drawing board and spend more time, and as i say, that's a scenario they would like to avoid because they don't want the world to perceive them as disunified or paralyzed. >> and cardinal dolan who is there for the conclave, he has a blog. on it today, he talked about what the cardinals have been discussing since they have been there. everything from preaching and
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teaching the faith to recruiting more pastors to marriage and abortion. interestingly, though, he felt the need to add this. he said, quote, those are the big issues. you may find it hard to believe since the word on the street is all that we talk about is corruption in the vatican, sexual abuse, and money. do these topics come up? yes, do they dominate? no. and those exclamation marks are his. as the head of the survivors network for those abused by prooes, david, what do you make of those comments? >> well, we're grateful any time anyone discusses child sex crimes. they happen in secret and secrecy is crucial to keeping the crimes going, so discussion is good. but these are men who have talked about that issue for many, many years. obviously action is what is needed. and we would hope, frankly, that they would -- the pedophilia crisis would be higher on the priority list in the days ahead. >> your group, david, released a list of papal candidates who you say are the most concerned about becoming the next pope.
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how did you choose -- and we're showing their pictures, how did you choose these men on the list? >> well, it's a combination, anderson, of hurtful things that they have done and hurtful things they have said. this crisis exists all over the world, but it's really only bubbled up to the surface in the western nation. so in the developing countries, there are papal candidates about whom we know very, very little, but we have certainly seen bishops who have fought against legal reforms that protect children. we have seen bishops who have used hard-ball tactics in court. we have seen bishops who continue to transfer predators and endanger kids. and those were the men we targeted on our list. >> once voting gets under way, the media is shut out. the tweeting by the cardinals ceases, right? >> yes, absolutely. there are actually electronic jamming devices in the sistine chapel and the hotel where the cardinals will be staying,
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precisely to insure that cardinals who might try to sneak a blackberry or an ipad into that environment aren't able to post tweets or update their facebook status. >> john allen and david, thank you guys. >> coming up, the jodi arias trial. if you missed any of the testimony this week, we'll catch you up. jurors asked her 200 questions, including this on the night she killed her boyfriend. >> why is it you have no memory of stabbing travis? >> i can't really explain why my mind did what it did. maybe because it's too horrible. >> she says he was physically abusive. just ahead, you'll hear from two of travis alexander's friends who say that could not be further from the truth. take these bags to room 12 please. [ garth ] bjorn's small business earns double miles on every purchase every day. produce delivery. [ bjorn ] just put it on my spark card. [ garth ] why settle for less? ahh, oh! [ garth ] great businesses deserve unlimited rewards. here's your wake up call.
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♪ crime and punishment tonight, jodi arias returns to the witness stand next week for her 18th day of testimony in her murder trial. she's accused of killing her ex-boyfriend, travis alexander.
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the arizona courtroom is dark today, and if we have to guess, the defense is probably ready for a break. it was quite a week for them. her lawyers trying to undo damage from four days of cross-examination, and we got a sense of how her testimony is playing to the jury. >> reporter: for jodi arias, this week was all about proving she never planned to kill travis alexander. >> did you go to mr. alexander's home on june 4th with the intent on killing him? >> no, i didn't. >> reporter: the jury is well aware arias has changed her story three times. two years after the killing, she finally said she did kill travis alexander, but in self defense. she claimed his anger and the physical abuse worsened after she caught alexander masturbating to a photo of a young boy, but if it was so startling, why hadn't she written about it in her journal? >> it was a highly negative event and a negative experience for me and not something i
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wished to remember. >> reporter: another week, another sex tape. this time, the defense played mainly alexander's voice. an effort to paint him as the more experienced sexually. >> you cannot say i don't work that booty. we've had two and three-hour sessions many times. >> the defense did all it could to clean up arias' image. even trying to explain away the text message arias sent to alexander suggesting she dress up like a dirty little school girl. >> the idea of the school girl in the outfit, was that something that -- that you were interested in or something that you were doing to please him? >> um, it would be more for his pleasure because just being with him was enough for me, but he enjoyed that kind of stuff. >> by midweek, it was the jury asking the questions. more than 200 in all delivered by the judge. they started with this zinger. >> why did you put the camera in
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the washer? >> i don't have memory of that. i don't know why i would do that. >> reporter: the camera contained pictures of alexander in the shower. this one taken just two minutes before his death. photo time stamps put arias at alexander's house at the time of the killing. and what about arias' failing memory the day alexander died? she has testified she shot alexander first and doesn't remember anything after that. here in court, her defense lawyer tried to raise even the slightest doubt that it was arias who stabbed alexander nearly 30 times and sliced his throat so deep his head was nearly cut off. >> do you have any memories of slashing mr. alexander's throat? >> no. >> when you were asked on cross-examination if you did that, do you recall telling us that you did? >> yes.
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>> was that a recollection or a logical assumption on your part? >> it was definitely not a recollection. >> reporter: the jury also wanted to know this. >> why did you place travis' body back in the shower? >> i could only speculate because i don't remember. >> reporter: and this. >> why is it that you have no memory of stabbing travis? >> i can't really explain why my mind did what it did. maybe because it's too horrible. >> reporter: when the jury's questions were done, arias' defense lawyer stepped in yet again to try to repair the damage. >> so, jodi, that is the ultimate question. why should anybody believe you now? >> i lied a lot in the beginning. i understand that there will
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always be questions, but all i can do at this point is say what happened to the best of my recollection. and if i'm convicted, then that's because of my own bad choices in the beginning. >> reporter: bad choices that could cost her her life. randi kaye, cnn, phoenix. >> jodi arias and her lawyers have tried to paint travis alexander as physically abusive, a man who attacked her in a rage. that's not the man his friends say he was like. they socialized after alexander started dating arias, and they said they saw red flags early on including the time alexander described being robbed at gun point, and they say sayrious didn't seem concerned at all. you say when you first met jodi, your internal alarms went off. what do you mean by that? >> she had a very spooky kind of
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like a seductive style energy when she walked into the room. you know, when you looked her in the eye, she had an empty like there was no soul behind those eyes. >> and jacob, the woman you see on the stand, is that the way you remember her back then? >> if you mean the lying, manipulating jodi, absolutely. the one that she's trying to portray to the rest of the world like she's some meek, you know, honest person that just wants the best for people, you know, this battered woman that she's trying to portray, absolutely not. that's, you know, the person she's trying to portray is not the person i see on the stand. the lying, manipulating jodi she's always been is definitely who where see on the stand. >> holly, do you agree with that. even the way she looks, the meekness she's trying to project, is that at odds with the way you remember her? >> she was never meek or quiet or reserved the way she is. the real jodi is the aggressive jodi you see talking to the prosecutor.
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that's the real jodi. >> i want to play a video your husband shot of travis telling a story about a near death experience. let's listen. >> tough people that's like pull the trigger or whatever. you one of those people who talks like they're tough. whatever. whatever, just to see how you'd react. >> what do you see? what kind of behavior do you see in her? >> um, in jodi, i see that she's very apathetic in that moment. she's annoyed almost like she doesn't want to be there. she doesn't care to hear this story. she's not interested in any way. and i know for me, if my husband had experienced something like that, and knowing travis, we were in that moment, we were so into his story, we were so in the moment with him experiencing it, it was very poignant for all of us. and she just -- she just didn't even care. it was almost like she was
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frustrated that she even had to waste her time listening to it. >> jacob, did you ever see this side of travis that arias is describing on the stand? you know, she describes him as a man who was loving and fun at times but angry and abusive at other times. did you ever see any of that? >> absolutely not. travis was one of the softest, sweetest people i ever met. he got -- not that there's anything wrong with this, but manicures weekly, had a pug named napoleon. he couldn't hardly shoot a gun when we went out on four-wheeling trips and anything like that. he was anything but that macho, woman beating deviant she's trying to describe him as. she's completely the polar opposite of that. >> one of the things i find so creepy about what she did beyond the killing itself is photographing him two minutes before she killed him. i assume you have seen them, the photos where he's looking directly into the camera lens, directly at her, and these were
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taken literally two minutes before she killed him. i just find that so bizarre. when you see those photos, particularly that face shot of him, what do you see? >> um, i see somebody that is -- when i look at those, he's completely unsuspecting. that's what scared me for travis, was he had absolutely no idea what was coming. and it was a sucker punch. it was a complete cheap shot by her. she caught him when he was not ready. and that tells me that there's no way that it could have been self defense because two minutes before, he's, you know, supposedly attacking her, why is he that relaxed in a shower? that's what i see when i look at it, somebody who is completely unsuspecting that his life is about to be taken from him. >> i appreciate you being on. i know it's not easy and i appreciate you talking about your friend. thank you. >> thank you. >> our legal panel joins us,
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jeffrey toobin, mark geragos, coauthor of mistrial, an inside look at how the criminal justice system works and sometimes doesn't. mark, you heard them talking about the jodi arias they remember and also the travis alexander they knew. and they say she's nothing like the sort of quiet, meek person now on the stand. what do you make of that? is that just part of the makeunder jeff was talking about before? >> that's precisely what it is. it doesn't take -- you don't have to get somebody who knew here to look at the before and after pictures and understand what is going on. there's a crafted effort to put her -- put forward somebody who does not look like the vixen or the manipulative vixen she looks like beforehand. this is now the frumpy librarian. >> jodi arias has made some pretty serious claims against alexander saying he was a pedophile, he was abusive. and all this stuff. the prosecution hasn't put anybody on to be character witnesses for him. is that something --
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>> they could in theory, but that seems likely to be a side show that would actually dignify arias' claims with more credence than they deserve. there is no evidence he was a pedophile. there is no evidence he was abusive. her own diary doesn't record anything untoward that he did to her. so i mean, it just seems like such a transparent attempt to justify her behavior after the fact. you know, and dragging travis' name through the mud after he has no chance to defend himself, that's her only -- her really only hope in this case, but it's -- i can't believe the jury is going to buy it. >> at this point, how long can you see her being on the stand for? >> this is longer on the witness stand than any witness in any trial i have ever been involved with, covering. she's now well -- >> i couldn't agree more. 30 years i have been practicing, i have never seen anything like it. >> the judge, you watch the trial, the judge is basically not participating. in a death penalty case you can
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sort of understand that because in a death penalty case, the judge wants to give the defendant every opportunity to tell her own story. but at this point, i mean, i would think the judge would want to step in and impose some sort of order and, you know, attention to the rules of evidence so that she could, you know, so this trial ends some day. >> i don't know, any state where you get into this 250 questions, i talked to a lot of lawyers, trial lawyers i know today, and they were just as aghast as i have been. the idea that somehow you're trying the case and jurors are getting interactive and it's going on, not just 12 questions, but hundreds and hundreds of questions, i mean, i think it just turns the system upside down. it's not supposed to be like this. this isn't what an adversarial system is. we hear from people saying it's a search for the truth, this and that. that's true, within an adversarial system. it's not supposed to be having all these deputized d.a.s sitting in the box asking
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questions, doing their own cross-examination, and everything else. they're supposed to be there at the impartial fact finders. >> mark and i disagree about this. i think this arizona system is great. i do not think jurors should be bumps on a log. given a life or death decision, they should have the opportunity to ask questions, circumscribed by the rules of evidence which the judge does by deciding which questions to ask. >> would you say 150 of those questions were circumscribed by the rules of evidence? >> i think enough is enough, but i think it's a tremendous tribute to the jury that they're so focused and asking so many questions. that indicates such knowledge of the case. >> if you're her defense, do you want her off the stand. as long as she's on the stand, they can ask her questions. do you want to try to get her off? >> you want her off, but at this point, that's few and far between to pull that back. >> her lawyer obviously has a different strategy. her lawyer has just kept her up there, asking her all these oprah style questions about how did you feel, what was your
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relationship? did you live him, did you love him unconditionally? basically trying to give this big picture of her life to the jury. maybe it will work on the death penalty, maybe it will not. >> i think that's exactly what he is doing. you're right. he's decided, okay, you want to make this a daytime tv show, jerry springer-essque, i'm going to welcome it, i'm going to roll around it in. >> it's a risk. i mean, we'll see. i just think his strategy -- >> you people with ph.d.s, you're so judgmental. >> he is so judgmental with his ph.d. by the way, in order to be a prosecutor, don't you need a jd? still ahead, our investigation into accusations of really ungodly discipline at a religious boarding school. former students say their were abused, even choked by staff members. the owner said the accusations were overblown. see what happened when the state tried to take action.
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keeping them honest ahead. >> also, surreal scene on north korean tv. king jong-un's troops running toward him when he visited the front line. we'll show you what happened. but there's one... one that's always eluded me. thought i had it in the blizzard of '93. ha! never even came close. sometimes, i actually think it's mocking me. [ engine revs ] what?! quattro!!!!! ♪ in the middle of the night it can be frustrating. it's hard to turn off and go back to sleep. intermezzo is the first and only prescription sleep aid approved for use as needed in the middle of the night when you can't get back to sleep. it's an effective sleep medicine you don't take before bedtime. take it in bed only when you need it and have at least four hours left for sleep. do not take intermezzo if you have had an allergic reaction to drugs containing zolpidem, such as ambien.
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keeping them honest tonight, a religious boarding school in montana that attracted national attention for the kind of discipline it practices, what some call out right child abuse. gary tuchman reported extensi extensively on those allegations. the subsequent outcry prompted montana legislature to act, taking up legislation to try to regulate such schools. as gary is going to report tonight, something else stopped that action cold. >> it's a religious boarding school for troubled children in the mountains of western montana. the pinehaven christian children's ranch where the scenery is beautiful but where some accusations are so very ugly. a husband and wife who worked there until 2010 as house parents say this about their time there. >> children were hurt at pinehaven. when kids won't obey, physical pain is used to get them to
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comply, whether it's pressure points. sometimes they were drug down the hill. sometimes they were choked. >> former student melissa remembers one particular house parent. >> he picked me up by the -- under my neck, just like at my trachea. and he's about 6'2" and i'm about 5 foot nothing. i'm maybe 4'10", and he picked me up by my throat and slammed me down on the kitchen table. >> the owner of the ranch is bob larson. >> why do you think people are saying such bad things. >> ultimately, we only have one enemy who wants to defeat the good in the world. that's satan. >> did the devil make this man do it? ned is the house parent melissa was referring to. >> some of the kids who are now adults tell us you used to choke them. >> that's totally false. >> what is it you did to them? >> used pressure points to restrain them. >> what does that mean?
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>> places on your body where nerve endings are close -- >> show me, where on my body? >> right there. >> show me. >> right there. >> two hands or one hand? >> usually just one. >> could that not be interpreted as choking? if an adult puts pressure points on a child much lower? >> i suppose it could be. >> we interviewed seven former students and employees who say choking and assault were part of life on the ranch. the accusations are the fuse that led many in montana to demand it stop, to put an end to the abuse. what could possibly be controversial about that? bob larsson testified before legislators considering a bill to regulate religious boarding schools. he said the accusations are overblown. >> i don't think everybody here believes everything you read in the newspaper because they have their own agenda. >> schools like pinehaven don't have to be regulated by the state like all other schools, no matter that pinehaven is unaccredited, unlicensed, and
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teachers don't even have montana teaching certificates, but an influential conservative leader in montana said the bill would be a violation of church and state. >> it would absolutely be against the constitution for the government to regulate a church. >> however, the sponsor said the issue is protecting children. >> i'm very proud of my religious education. this is not about religion. >> they point out that every other religious boarding school in the state except pine haven has voluntarily agreed to be regulated, but bob larson said there is no more choking or so-called pressure pointing and spent at least 20 minutes in the state capital talking and doing the type of power poirnlt one would do for perspective students and their families. >> we invite you to come to western montana and visit pinehaven. >> when he finished, so did the leisurely pace of the hearing. suddenly the pace picked up. judiciary chairman was in an interrupting mood. >> try to be brief. we're running out of time. ou our time is essentially expired.
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step up, state your name, one minute or one sentence. either way. we're on to the next question. we have to learn to ask and answer the questions briefly. we're running out of time. >> finally, one legislator in support of regulating pinehaven couldn't take it any longer. >> i'm extremely upset about what is happening right now. i don't think there's anything more important than the safety of our children, and we listened to a 20-minute presentation that had very little to do with the topic of this bill. >> the questioning of larson was short, a vote was taken, 12-8 against regulation. the bill was dead. crayton kerns, the chairman of the committee, was one of the 12 who voted not to regulate pinehaven. >> don't you think if there was someone in the state looking over the place, the children would be safer? >> i don't think it would change it. i really don't. >> why do it for the other schools? >> huxley told us, brave new world, regulation is the key to stabilization, i don't buy it. >> why do it for the other schools, for industries. >> good point. let's repeal all of that. >> are you serious? >> yeah, i'm serious.
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do we need that much regulation? >> even when it comes to the safety of children? >> safety of anybody. >> jenny was the one who was emotional in the hearing. >> it was shocking that we are hearing about children being abused and not do anything about it, in fact, not even get all the information on the table. i definitely lost sleep over it. it's really troubling. >> gary tuchman joins us now. can this bill be reintroduced during the legislative session? >> this bill is dead for the session, anderson, and unlike most states, montana's legislature doesn't meet every year, only in odd number years so the bill can't be introduced into the year 2015. >> if they had approved the bill, what were the chances in the house and senate? >> it was by party lines, eight in favor were democrats, 12 against were republicans. republicans do dominate the house and the senate, the full house and the senate, but proponents of the bill do believe it would have passed both those chambers and the governor is a democrat, and the
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governor made it very clear that he, too, supported the bill, which means he would have signed the bill. >> interesting that it's the only religious school that doesn't accept some form of regulation. fascinating report, gary. appreciate that. thanks very much. up next, searching for answers in the lion attack that left an intern at an animal sanctuary dead. the latest on the investigation. and justin bieber hospitalized. we'll tell you why when we continue. surprise -- your house was built on an ancient burial ground. [ ghosts moaning ] surprise -- your car needs a new transmission. [ coyote howls ] how about no more surprises? now you can get all the online trading tools you need without any surprise fees. ♪ it's not rocket science. it's just common sense. from td ameritrade.
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sleep number. comfort individualized. let's get caught up on some of the other stories we're following. >> anderson, one market watcher calls it the most optimistic jobs report of the entire recovery. word today the economy is once again adding enough jobs. 236,000 last month to start bringing down the unemployment rate again. down to 7.7%. that's lower than what it was
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when president obama took office. a state funeral was held today for venezuela's president, hugo chavez who died tuesday. 32 heads of state paid their respects. thousands of mourners waited for hours to view his body. his body will be put on permanent display in a glass casket at a military museum. >> a wild scene from north korean tv. kim jong-un visits troops near the south korean border, causing a frenzy. this comes just hours after north korea stepped up its nuclear threats against the u.s. >> the cat haven where a lion attacked and killed an intern on wednesday has reopened. meanwhile, california fish and wildlife authorities have taken swabs of the teeths and claws from the lion's remains. the lion used its paws to pick at a gate and get inside an enclosure before killing the intern. >> and a rough time for justin bieber in london. he shared this photo last night from the hospital. he went there after shortness of breath during a concert, and this morning, he got into an
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altercation with a photographer. >> what did you say? what did you say? >> not exactly a good week for him. anderson. >> no, it was not. thanks very much. coming up, two pet tortoises get romantic with each other and made it straight on to the ridiculist. f etf knowledge tdd#: 1-800-345-2550 all in one place. tdd#: 1-800-345-2550 introducing schwab etf onesource™. tdd#: 1-800-345-2550 it's one source with the most commission-free etfs. tdd#: 1-800-345-2550 tdd#: 1-800-345-2550 one source with etfs from leading providers tdd#: 1-800-345-2550 and extensive coverage of major asset classes... tdd#: 1-800-345-2550 all brought to you by one firm tdd#: 1-800-345-2550 with comprehensive education, tools and personal guidance tdd#: 1-800-345-2550 to help you find etfs that may be right for you. tdd#: 1-800-345-2550 schwab etf onesource-- tdd#: 1-800-345-2550 for the most tdd#: 1-800-345-2550 commission-free etfs, tdd#: 1-800-345-2550 you only need one source and one place. tdd#: 1-800-345-2550 start trading commission-free with schwab etf onesource. tdd#: 1-800-345-2550 call, click or visit today.
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time now for the ridiculist. tonight, we have a tragic tale from england where a house fire started because of the burning passion of two pet tortoises bein

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